Chapter 11 basically discussed teacher tenure and dismissal. These were interesting topics to me as I have debated on how teachers achieved the ‘tenured’ status, and what they must do in order to be dismissed at that point. For me, whenever I heard someone say a teacher had tenure- it was spoken as if the teacher was untouchable and archaic. Most often heard in college, I assumed these professors were dinosaurs operating off antiquated theories and irrelevant information. However, I only experienced a poor tenured teacher once in all of my education. As I understand it tenure comes at different stages depending on your state or district. It is generally accepted as a level that the teacher is no longer considered to be hired on a probationary basis. It is not an excuse to become complacent in your teaching habits and not an excuse to engage in conduct that would detract from your ability to teach. Engaging in poor conduct, or failing as a teacher would still be acceptable excuses for dismissing a tenured teacher. Other reasons for dismissal could be financial or good or just cause. Once a teacher receives tenure they must be notified as to the reason they are being terminated as they have a legitimate claim to a teaching position within the school or district. However, if a teacher is terminated before tenure is established no reasons must be given for the contract not being renewed. This chapter explained the illusive term, tenure, for me as well as established general guidelines for dismissal. I now feel more informed about my rights as a teacher in regard to the expectations of tenure and my conduct.
This chapter was interesting to me for many reasons. Becoming tenured is of great importance to me because I will be seeking the acquisition of tenure soon. I have questions about how the evaluation process is judged. Will my principle be the only one evaluating me or will another administration person being observing me? Will I have to go through another interview process each year before I am tenured? The other part of this chapter I found of interest to me was the collective bargaining section. I wonder if and who the district bargaining person is and if they are compensated for their efforts? Is there a third party involved in the negotiations? I learned that there are some issues that are not negotiable in some states. The school board and the teachers union are the two major players in these contracts.
In response to Jena S, I agree, the tenure process is one with many questions. Unfortunately, I don’t know the answers to any of them. But, after reading this selection I at least have some idea of the process. It was also informative to learn that there are some things that can’t be bargained for, for instance pay increases in many cases. I had believed that pay was something that was almost always determined through a third party bargaining system.
Chapter 11 to me was the most interesting and helpful chapter to me as a future teacher. It talked a lot about tenure and dismissal and I was able to get lots of facts about the two different areas that I didn’t know before. First of all I learned that in most states a teacher doesn’t receive tenure until after three years of teaching and is also being asked to come back in the fall. An important point that I noticed was that tenure is not designed to protect teachers who are ineffective but those teachers who are competent. The chapter also talked a little bit about teacher evaluation and the importance of it and the benefits to the teacher after getting evaluated such as ways to improve his or her teaching. I had never heard the term reduction in force before but now I do and I am aware of what it means in the school system. I loved the fact that the book gave seven different criteria that districts look at when considering employers for reduction in force and overall I agree with the criteria and it seems only fair.
I agree with you Adrianne that I always thought of a tenure teacher as untouchable and that they were always going to have their job unless they did something really bad. I also understand the text that tenure comes in different years depending on the state in which you are employed but the number is usually around three years. I agree that it doesn’t mean then as a teacher you can start slacking off and not doing as good of a job teaching. A tenure teacher has no rights to engage in poor conduct and like you stated would most likely dismiss the teacher even though he or she has tenure. A tenure teacher does need to know by they are being let go and a teacher in the probationary period doesn’t. Lastly I also understand the concept of tenure and dismissal more and I feel more informed about the topics.
This chapter was very informational. Tenure for most is a common goal and huge job comfort but even after reading through all the procedures and such I still don’t know how I feel about it. I do believe it was created for the right purpose however, today I feel that it protects more of the bad teachers than the good. I remember in middle school in science we got on the subject of tenure. We had heard about this word but didn’t understand so we asked our teacher. She began to explain how she was tenure and everything she did and all the other teachers who had received this status. Then she proceeded to tell us she would never lose her job unless she basically rapped or harassed one of us students. I couldn’t believe what she had just told us! To top it all off she wasn’t a good teacher. One time she had a senior boy come to our class and explain genetics because she didn’t know. That whole experience has stuck with me and I have a hard time believing in something that allows that kind of teacher in any school system.
As an educator I think that evaluations are completely necessary. I think that every person no matter who you are or what you do could use guidance and room for improvement, and evaluations should help provide that. No one is perfect. Teachers should be assessed to make sure that they are doing their job correctly and educating the students accurately. On an average of twenty students a year education rides on your ability to provide them with an adequate education. We need to make sure that we are doing our best to give them that. I find all of the reasons that teachers could be fired to be very interesting. If a teacher isn’t doing his/her job or neglecting duties then they shouldn’t be teaching. You can’t play around with a kid’s education. It just isn’t fair to them.
Brooke- You mentioned that in most states teachers have to be employed for 3 years before they tenure. I think that this is great because it gives them a chance to prove themselves.
I totally agree that teachers should be evaluated. Even as scary as that might be for a teacher and the thought of having someone watching me teach! It must be done to keep teachers on their toes and on task. I have a great friend who lives in Greeley Co. He is a retired president of a specialized college/high school. It’s for students who may have dropped or kicked out of high school or have bad grades or want a vocational education. But anyways he we do random drop ins every day on teachers and was very involved in everything being taught in all the rooms. He talked about how many faculty they would go through in a year but he didn’t care. He hated doing interviews and searching for more teachers but never hesitated to let a teacher go who wasn’t doing their job. I think we need more of that in all schools, public or college.
I loved all the “new” vocabulary in chapter 11. I had heard several of the words, but never quite new or understood what they meant. Words such as incompetency, insubordination, neglect of duty, immorality, and others are so important to know. I also thought that the “sexual advances toward students” section was very interesting. It is so hard for teachers to know what they can say or do and not be held responsible for an inappropriate action. We are taught to give high-fives for a positive gesture or give a light touch on a student’s shoulder when miss behaving, but is that too much? I know there are people out there that are sick like that, but others are caring.
In reply to Katie: Wow! What an amazing story! That is crazy! I often wonder why some people are teachers. It seriously is a profession you do not do for yourself, but for others. It clearly does not pay well, so if you are one that doesn't care and have no intentions of making a connection with your students and helping them through life, why even bother?
The topics in this chapter are not something new to me. I grew up with a father as a teacher/coach and I would overhear talks about all the politics that were going on at the school. Many of the words and comments in the text I have heard many times as I was growing up. I have always thought the idea of tenure was kind of interesting actually. I think it is great that tenure is a really good attribute that the education field offers. It is nice for teachers to know that they have a little security and just focus on doing the best job they can. I honestly think that if you just do your job that you should have nothing to worry about, but then again I am sure that is me being naïve again. Contract negotiations are something that I feel have really been a major issue over the last few years. I know my father shared with me there were a few years that the teachers would start the year off with the prior year’s contacts because the current contracts were not agreed upon yet. Now how can they do that? I know that it’s a very controversial topic but how can they do that to their employees, I just don’t feel that its right. This chapter is a great resource to help answer questions that may come up on these types crisis or situations.
@DeidraJ It is so sad that a few sick people have made our society such an overprotective society. What choice do we have but to protect our children and love ones. I think it is clear to see actions that are meant to be caring and those which are inappropriate. I think one of the biggest things is to make sure children know what is appropriate and what is inappropriate. I also agree that this book does well with defining the terminology and explaining in ways that are easy to understand. One this is for sure, we are going to have our work cut out for us when we enter the field.
Personally, I do not know if I agree with the idea of Tenure. Maybe it is because how tenure is perceived in the profession. I have thought hard about this and tried to think of another profession that has tenure. I think as teachers we should all be treated the same. If you are doing a good job and performing your job than your position is still yours. If not, the school should have the right to terminate you whether you have taught for 1 year or 25 years. This is even more important now because some very good teachers are being let go because they only have 2 years experience and another teacher may have tenure (not necessarily a better teacher) but they have tenure. It is very hard to fire a teacher that has tenure because they have a a lot of support behind them. I hope this post does not make anyone mad, but it is how I feel about the topic. I think every teacher should be evaluated the same way.
Katie C: I agree with your post. I don't see the need for tenure. If a teacher is doing their job why should they worry about being fired. I do not like the idea that a great 2nd year teacher may lose their position to a tenure teacher who is terrible because of a budget cut. As a paraprofessional in these hard times I have seen some really good teachers get let go because of the cuts. A tenure teacher gets moved to that position not because they are a better teacher, but because they have been there for 3+ years.
To Adrianne: I guess another problem I have with tenure is the fact that a teacher who does not have tenure can be dismissed without any explainable. I just do not like that idea. In most lines of work people are put on a ninety day probationary period. However, it is three years and they can just say good bye with out reason. I would like think there would not be a need to dismiss someone for incompetency if they have a degree in education and passed the state exam. While a tenure teacher can be dismissed after notification and a long fight, it seems like it usually doesn't happen.
Lacey Keller This chapter is one that has many arguments for and against it. I eartagged the page that stated that tenure laws are to protect the teachers who are competent not the ones who are ineffective. Through a parent's eye, I do not agree with the entire law. Honestly, I have seen some teachers who promise the kids will learn this and that, but at the end of the year, the kids have not learned a whole lot. I hear the excuse over and over again that the teacher is still there because he/she is tenured! Maybe the administration needs to have a better evaluation system?
Another point that caught my eye was the part that said teachers are not protected by the tenure laws when they cannot effectively teach the material and/or effectively discipline. The teachers will be held accountable for the material being taught by the measurement of AYP. However, how do you measure the discipline policies of a teacher? As a para, I have seen some pretty rough classes and hope I have effective administration to back me up.
Jeanette, I agree with you in that the tenure laws are not always effective. We lose an awful lot of good, non-tenured teachers because of tenure policies. I would personally like to see a change so that 1.) our educational contracting system will be viewed positively in the public eye and 2.) students will be gauranteed the best teacher regardless of the number of years taught.
I can also see the good that tenure law offer. Here in rural Kansas, many communities have board members that may be elected to see a teacher ousted. Think about it: an elected board member may only need sometimes twenty votes to be a member. (Yes, here in western Kansas, it's possible!) And, without the protection of the tenure laws, this board member may personally attack the teacher causing a loss of a job.
This chapter discusses tenure, dismissal, and collective bargaining. I always like learning more information on tenure and hearing peoples opinions on tenure. I do believe in tenure, but I also feel that there are teachers out there who have given it a bad name and take advantage of it. I found the section on collective bargaining interesting. This is a topic that I don't know much about. I learned that there are significant differences in collective bargaining between private and public sectors. Private sector employees do not have the same constitutional protections as public sector employees. I also learned that length of work day, teaching workload, extra duties, leaves of absences, and other fringe benefits are said to be mandatory, meaning that both parties must be involved. I don't know if this happens or how it happens, but I did find it interesting to read about.
You brought about some very interesting questions. I have learned all about tenure, but never about the actual process and how they know you deserve it. I would really like to find out this information.
This was one of the chapters I found to be more important. The concept of tenure always seemed extremely confusing to me, but as a future teacher this law book really laid out how it works.
What interested me most while reading Chapter 11 was the dismissal aspect. I never would have thought half of the reasons for dismissal are actual lawful reasons to dismiss a teacher. I do have one question though? What goes into dismissal for incompetency? Granted it is the teacher that has a responsibility to teach the students the materials required in curriculum. But is the incompetency based solely on student achievement or is there ways to tell the teacher themselves is not competent of teaching?
I agree that the tenure concept is a great incentive for teachers. It helps us have a little bit of job security (that is if it is implemented and acted upon effectively). I also agree that if you can do your job effectively you shouldn't worry about losing your job. Good teachers are hard to come by. (Yes, maybe I'm also being a bit naive, but it seems like it's legitimate when talking about keeping a teaching job.)
Chapter 11 was great. I really was not familiar with all of the tenure rules and regulations. I have to say that I was someone who did not believe in the whole tenure thing. Where else in the real world do you get tenure? Nowhere. I guess I feel this way because I see terrible teacher continue to teach poorly, but they have tenure so I thought they were untouchable. But after reading this there is a way to get tenured teachers out, it is just a process.
@ Lacey Keller I agree with your outlook on this, and it is nice to see it through a parent’s eye. I can not count how many times I have heard other teachers say “they can’t get rid of her because she is tenured!” I just think it is a bit outrageous.
Tenure does not give mean that schools have to keep bad teachers, but that fact that they can get rid of a teacher does not mean that they will.
Measuring how good or bad a teacher is at their job is a difficult thing that many schools may not be sure how to do. Additionally whatever the school board may think of the things a teacher does, at this point test scores rule. No matter how much the school board may disagree with the things a teacher does, if the test scores are high; the teacher will stay.
At the same time NCLB will make it hard to explain why they are keeping a teacher, even if they like them, if the test scores are always bad.
Tenure and collective barging, things teachers love that may not last. While this chapter is complete and accurate as far as it goes, things may change.
So many bad teachers have kept their jobs in the age of tenure that people want to get rid of teacher tenure.
Through collective barging teachers in some places have gotten so much, and refused to give it up when budgets dropped, that some people want to get rid of that. There are two many teachers who have been working for years who would rather see 5% of teachers get laid off then take a 5% cut in pay.
This chapter is accurate at this time, but we are at a point in time in which that could change quickly.
Finally remember that teachers can not strike and that you are a public servant, the public is not there to serve you.
This chapter was interesting to me, tenured worked depending on what state and district you teach in. I think most school teachers have to teach three years before they can be tenured. I was very intrigued in this chapter to learn how it works for dismissal too. The most interesting thing I found from this chapter was the 7 different criteria that districts look for when taking into account their employers for reduction in force.
This chapter answered some of my questions but also raised some of them. I have always heard how important it can be to reach tenure status as an educator within a school district, this does not mean that the teacher is untouchable and guaranteed a job for life. It is however, a promise of protection for the teacher and a promise of continued employment as long as the educator continues to work to the best of his/her ability and continues to play by the rules within that school district.
I have recently read so many articles though about how the tenure system is going to be abolished. Because many people believe that these educators will perform better if they are constantly having to show why they deserve employment and it will keep them on their toes. I have not heard anymore about this in the past couple months but am once again anxious to find out what is being done with these ideas.
The book “A Teacher’s Pocket Guide to School Law 2nd Edition by Nathan L. Essex looks at and explains different laws and their importance to people including educators. According to the chapter title, chapter eleven of Essex’s book talks about “Tenure, Dismissal, and Collective Negotiations” (Essex, 156). In this chapter of the textbook I learned new and interesting facts, I reflected on my own life experiences and I thought of questions that made me dig deeper. Something that I learned in this chapter of the text book was “tenure” was. I have heard this word many times when I worked as a para educator in the school district but did not know what it was. People would describe it as meaning that teachers have worked at a school for a while so it was hard to get them fired then other teachers that have not been working at the school district that long. Now I know what the word really means. A piece of information that I made me think about when I become a teacher was the statement in Essex (2011) book “During the probationary period, a teacher may be denied renewal at the end of the contract year without cause, or dismissed during the contract year without cause, or dismissed during the contract year with cause” (Essex, 157). Does this mean during the probation period a teacher can be let go for any reason what so ever? References: Essex, N. L. (2011). Teacher’s Pocket Guide to School Law (2nd ed.). Boston, MA: Pearson.
Jeremiah G: I think that you have a great point that right now this is accurate, will it still be in the next 10 years? I think that you have a good point that bad teacher have kept their jobs in the age of tenure that people want to get rid of teacher tenure. I also can see this changing very fast.
I was also intrigued by the ways for tenured teachers to get dismissed and cause the loss of their employment. I knew that there were still possibilities for these teachers to lose their jobs I was just never sure of how that happened.
Carissa, I too have heard that it is important for a teacher to be tenured because of all the protection that they get that teachers on probation do not. I have not heard that they are going get rid of this but that is good to know. I think it really should not matter to teacher's if they had that protection or not because they should perform to the best of their ability all the time.
I liked reading chapter 11 on tenure, dismissal and collective negotiations. It gave me insight on what I can expect once I have been teaching at the same school for a while along with evaluations. Tenure is put into place once you have been at the same school for three years and consists of protecting teachers and is entitled to fundamental fairness. However, a teacher can still get dismissed even if they have tenure because of incompetency, insubordination, neglect of duty, immorality, or financial exigency. Again the tips at the end of the chapter was a great review.
I too had heard of tenure, but never really knew what it was about. For some reason I thought you had to be at the same school for five years, but read it was only three years. I do think it is a good thing to try and achieve tenure and be at the same school for a while. I also am curious about your question, but think that the teacher can be let go for any reason.
This chapter was very interesting to me. It gave me the most information of stuff I did not have a clue about completely. I never really knew what tenure meant. I gained that knowledge form this exact chapter. It basically means that a teacher is no longer in the probation state. It is different in each state and maybe in each district. There is a specific date within the district or school of when the teacher must be notified if there will no longer be a position available to them for the following school year. If a teacher has been at the same school for three consecutive years, and do not receive a letter of nonrenewal, they gain their tenure by default. I enjoyed the teacher evaluation section. I think it is great when they are evaluated and given information on what they need to correct and how they are doing. Sometimes just knowing that someone is seeing your work and how you are portraying yourself at your job, is very helpful. This may help the teacher realize that the school principal or superintendent is actually noticing the great or horrible job you are doing. The school I interned at last semester was not like this. The teachers pretty much did whatever they wanted and whenever. They were pretty much in charge of themselves. You rarely saw or heard of the principal being around or even he superintendent. I think the main reason for this is because the school is so tiny that each person does more than one job. They have an elementary, junior high and high school, but I think you will find that the principal maybe a teacher at points as well.
In response to Jennifer P – I too did not know what the word tenure meant. After reading this chapter, I feel like I am efficient in knowing the word and that I am even able to explain it to other people. I am also wondering the same thing as you are in the fact that it stated during the probation period, a teacher may be denied renewal at the end of the contract year. My sister is a teacher in California and they had some major budget cuts last year. She was told she was let go because she was on the bottom of the totem pole in experience. Well she ended up getting her job back because they realized that she had more experience than the others that were left to fill the spots needing filled. They base it off of years of experience when people thought it was based on the years in the district. Some people belonged to another district for a few of their teaching years.
This was big on conversation for several teachers last year. The threat of cutbacks for teacher’s, caused several of our teachers to talk over whether they have tenure. Teachers that were not tenured were thinking that they would be first ones to go if we were to lose anyone. I know after being tenured I’m going to take a big sigh of relief. I have seen a couple of teachers that seemed to have what other teachers said were bad skills, or just couldn’t get along with others and they couldn’t do much about it because they were tenured. I thought that maybe there would be other choices such as training them to do better, or discipline of some kind to help them work with others better. I would hate to think that tenure was just a way to protect yourself from trying to be a better teacher. I really like the idea of teacher evaluations. I think it’s important to continue to assess your skills and get feedback that can help you improve. Financial exigency – even with cut backs, I know our school didn’t lose any teachers or staff. They did everything they could to make sure everyone had a position of some kind. Dismissal for cause, as scary as it sounds I’m glad that we have that. Incompetency, insubordination, neglect of duty, immorality, conduct involving morality, and sexual advances toward students are definitely things I would not want someone teaching my children being accused of found guilty of and still being allowed to teach my children, so I would expect myself not to be guilty of them.
April B - in response to what you commented on. I too was pretty unfamiliar with the term and I'm glad we have this guide. Somethings I have picked up while working in the schools and if I had not worked in a school this guide would be very important in informing me of our laws. I know one teacher this year that I think they counted as tenured even though she had only worked in this district one year but she worked in another district.
Within this chapter, I was able to understand the concepts of tenure in more detail. Being in practicums and having internships, I have discussed the ideals of tenure with practicing teachers, but depending on the specific school district, tenure is different. I personally agree and disagree with tenure. I feel that the GOOD thing about tenure is it allows teachers the opportunity to be recognized and feel that they school district trusts them and their teaching skills (plus, with state testing and administrative overseeing, teachers are able to continue to do well and stay on track.) On the other hand, I have had a teacher in the past who has threw shoes across the room and pulled my brother's hair. This is obviously NOT acceptable! Why would anyone want anyone, let alone a teacher from 8:00-5:00 five days a week, to be around their child? There is no excuse, but because of tenure and the small town community personal security this teacher had, they were not terminated or punished in any way. This teacher taught me how NOT TO BE...
I have also heard that "they" may get rid of tenure. I think that it would keep teachers on their toes and keep the inspiration of true and good teachers alive. All jobs have supervisors and need to renew contracts at times, why shouldn't teaching? Teachers have to be up to date with tests and procedures, why not with their tenure? This is something I wouldn't be opposed to in the future. We shall see...
This chapter contained lots of new information for me. Learning more about tenure was comforting, especially with the declining job market. I would not want to get out into my profession and a few months in find out I'm going to be fired because for nothing I did wrong on my part. I especially enjoyed reading about the tenure guides. It touched on the fact that tenure does not protect teachers who are ineffective. I think this is important because teachers must do their job right and provide a quality education for all students or they are not achieving anything. If this is not the case than they will need to reevaluate themselves instead of just growing more comfortable with the way things are going. This chapter touched on a ton of other information I was pretty much clueless on so lets just some it up to say that there were many epiphanies had throughout this reading!
I didn't have much prior knowledge on tenure so what I learned was comforting for me in a way. I feel like if I can do my job right and be effective I will be okay, especially with tenure. Like you said though, there are teachers our there who are simply horrible and should not be protected by this. It seems theres got to be a fix in the system to ensure that all teachers under tenure are truly good and effective. Like in your example the ones who should have proved that the teacher was not effective were the ones protecting them from that title. Tenure is a good thing when it comes to professional and effective teachers but theres got to be a way to weed out the ineffective unprofessional ones. Good post!
My first thought when reading about "tenure" was the teacher cutbacks that have been in the news in the past year or two. If my memory serves me correctly, many of the teachers that were cut, in large numbers, were in schools where NCLB requirements were not being met. If this is the case, their jobs were lost due to poor performance of the students. The NCLB indicates that teachers are responsible for their students success. Our school has had the same cutbacks, but have not cut positions. They have "rearranged" teachers or cut back the number of sections of a grade, but for the most part, with retirements, the teachers have been placed in different positions. Some may have moved from one grade or subject to another or taken on an additional class/subject (middle school).
I was interesting to read the reason for dismissals for cause. I agree with them. As discussed in the previous chapter, teachers are often seen as role models. If a person is incompetent, insubordinate or neglectful in duty, they should be replaced. Additionally, the morality or lack there of issues should also be considered. Teachers need to consider the area where they work and what is acceptable. Most things will be the same no matter where a teacher works.
Tenure, Dismissal and Collective Negotiations This chapter states over and over again that tenure is designed to protect effective teachers and that is not put in place to protect teachers who are ineffective or are not doing their job to the expectations in their contract. But this does not align with what common beliefs are about tenure in the communities I have lived in. And I know many ineffective and poor quality teachers who have held their jobs for years and years. I have to wonder if they are in that position because of tenure. Or was my child the only one who “fell through the cracks”? I doubt it. The section on sexual advances toward students made me sick to my stomach. Sexual intercourse with students in the school building? I imagine due process was used and I hope the process moved swiftly in these cases! On the other side of this, is the section on morality and the fact that teachers are expected to live up to a high moral standard because they are an example to the students and the community in general. The chapter points out that teaching is an exemplary profession and teachers are behaviors are expected to be above reproach. I started thinking about this in the readings in Chapter 10, and here again, I have to wonder how much I will be living in a fish bowl and it is a little unnerving. I am confident in my ability to lead a moral life and be a good example to my own children and the community at large, but what about a gathering of friends in a public place? What if my night to hang out with my friends at the local pizza joints when jokes get a little off-color is witnessed by students or parents of students? Does this mean it is time to start ducking out on that activity? People in my life look at me a little funny when I say that I am starting to feel the pressure of entering the teaching profession, but being a teacher covers every aspect of my life, not just a 7:30-3:30 “job.” Although parts of this chapter repulsed me, it was full of helpful information. One thing I appreciate about this book is the way it summarizes points in the back of each chapter. In the future, it will easy to come back and find well-organized information to refer to, which will help me locate the specifics in the chapters when I want/need to refer to them again.
Jennifer P.~ I see you are quoting about the teacher in the probation period, so you must be correct, but I did not read the chapter to say that a non-tenured teacher could be let go during the contract period without just cause. I say this because of the place on p. 158 where it says: "...if a district decided to dismiss a probationary teacher during the contract period, then full due process provisions are required, including notice, cause and a formal hearing..." I believe that teachers in the probationary period can have experience non-renewal of contract for no reason but if let go during their contract, the school must show cause.
The entire process of tenure was intriguing for me to read. Since my husband is in educations I understood the basics of tenure. Even now more than ever. This year he took a new teaching position. It was somewhat of a risk leaving the comforts of tenure to start a new job elsewhere. However, he is loving his new job and has the opportunity to coach football, which is a dream come true for him. At the same time, being a head coach in high school adds a whole new level to achieving tenure. Not only does he need to show success in the classroom, but also on the field. For the most part tenure has not much of a concern, it's more of a comfort. My husband loves to teach and I know he will be successful where ever he is. I hope to be the same way - not concerned. However if for some reason I don't make tenure, I would hate to not be given a reason. I cannot imagine being let go and not knowing why. I would hope that the district or principal would be able to offer advice or recommendations as to what I could do to better myself.
@ Lacey Your question - "How do you measure the discipline policies of a teacher?" is so valid. I too am very concerned with discipline in the classroom. As a substitute, discipline was something that I struggled with. I am very surprised that we do not have a class that focuses on discipline. I know that we put focus on classroom management, but I think it should go much deeper than that. I know we will gain some experience from student teaching, but that will only be one teachers perspective. I don't feel that much discipline has been addressed during my interships. I guess that is why I have so much concern.
Chapter 11 was very informative and provided us with lots of useful knowledge about tenure, dismissal and collective negotiations. I enjoyed the practical tip Do Not that states, “Tenure laws are designed to protect only tenured teachers who are effective.” Some teachers who are not exactly excelling at their jobs may think that getting tenure will allow them to keep their jobs and that is just not true. The text stated that in some states, “teachers are eligible for tenure after three successful years in the same district and have a reemployment offer for the next year.” However, this does not mean that all teachers who have been teaching in the same school district for three successful years will be granted tenure. I think this system is a great way to protect the teachers who are doing a great job from getting fired over an unfortunate event that may happen in the future as well as a way to let go of those teachers who are not teaching effectively. The text also talked about dismissal for many reasons including incompetence, insubordination, neglect of duty and sexual advances towards students. We hold educators to a very high standard and if they are not doing their jobs as effectively as they should be, I’m glad to see that the laws are in place to let them go.
I found your post about how the tenure system might be abolished very interesting. On one hand I understand why the tenure system is a good idea and it helps keep the effective teachers in the schools, but what if they stop being as effective once they have tenure? Maybe if they did not have tenure and we only periodically evaluated teachers, they would be even more effective. You made some great points and made me think.
The word tenure is a word I have heard before, but never really understood the meaning. this chapter cleared it up for me. I now understand that it is security for teachers and to ensure they are protected. I always thought teachers received it by being a teaching for so long because it seemed like all the older teachers had tenure. The book on the other hand stated that most states a teacher may acquire tenure after three successive years in the same district. I feel teacher evaluation is important because I had handful of teachers in my years that were not the greatest and I wished so bad that the principle would just randomly walk in and sit-in on class. I felt that way because whenever the teacher would tell us that the principle was coming in to evaluate him or her, they would always act different. The chapter mentioned incompetency as being the sole reason for dismissal in most aspects. My science teacher in 8th grade should have been dismissed because for one thin I didn't learn anything and he talked about inertia the entire year.
Brandi S, I to found the section on tenure interesting. It was something I had heard about through my years of school, but never really understood what it meant. I understand now that it's a means of protection for the teacher. I don't feel though that once a teacher receives tenure that they should think that nothing is going to happen to them at all and that they should continue to be a good teacher. If I were let go I would like to know why as well and be given advice. That is one of my fears when I become a teacher. I want to be a good teacher.
Before reading this chapter I had very little knowledge of teacher tenure. I didn't know that tenured teachers could be dismissed in RIF situations. Though tenure seems a good thing to attain as a teacher, it also seems to me that we shouldn't need it. We should do a good job teaching students to the best of our abilities. for this we should be rewarded with keeping our jobs so we may continue to help students learn.
Carrie H., like you I have lived in communities where the views on tenured teachers do not align with the books stated intentions of tenure. I hear strongly worded opinions from even my own family members how public teachers should not be granted tenure. These opinions come from examples of teachers doing poor jobs or doing terrible things, such as abusing students, and still maintaining their position. Tenured teachers can be dismissed through due process procedures, but why isn't the process always followed? This is a question that bothers many people because when a bad tenured teacher is protected, then who is protecting the students?
I’ve known that tenure is something to strive for, but didn’t really know what the requirements were. I also just assumed these requirements varied from school to school. It was interesting to me to learn that the requirements for tenure are actually set at a state level. I think this is great, because it keeps it consistent from school to school. I thought it was also good that Chapter 11 pointed out that “tenure is not designed to protect teachers who are inept and ineffective, but rather those who are competent and effective.” This means that even though a teacher has received tenure, they cannot be complacent, because their job is safe only if they are performing it to the best of their ability. I hope this is how this actually works. It would be unfair for a good teacher to be let go just because another teacher has been there longer if the teacher who has been there longer isn’t doing their job. On the other hand, tenure is important because it is job protection for those who have been teaching for a while. If I have been teaching for 20 years, I want to know my job is safe as long as I am doing my job. This keeps the school district from just letting someone go, in favor of someone new. It was also good to learn about what are specific grounds for dismissal for a tenured teacher, and the process that it would take to be dismissed. I think this is all very good information to have and will definitely want to know the requirements for tenure at my school so that I can strive for it.
It does seem that if everyone was just treated fairly, that tenure wouldn't be needed. However, I think tenure is there to protect teachers and ensure that they are treated fairly. I am sure that just was with any job, there are politics, and maybe it isn't always fair. But, I think that tenure protects experienced, effective teachers, because it keeps them from being forced out in favor of someone younger or new.
Chapter 11 covers tenure and dismissal. I found it interesting because like many others have said I was not sure what tenure really meant and involved. According to this book tenure is not intended to protect poor teachers. However, I feel that sometimes it does. I had a teacher in high school that was very ineffective. The administration received several complaints from students and parents about this teacher but nothing was ever done because this teacher was tenured. Even though the law does not intend to protect bad teachers, it requires the school district to provide proof and follow due process. I think because of this, many ineffective teachers get to continue poor teaching and their students suffer because of it. Teachers are already protected under other laws for being unjustly dismissed, so is tenure really necessary? This is not to say that no one deserves tenure, many teachers do. However, it seems to me that those teachers who deserve tenure, don’t really need it.
I completely agree that teachers need to be evaluated, because unfortunately there are some not so good teachers out there. However, like you said when the principal would come in to observe a class, the teacher would act differently. When that happens it appears to the principal that this teacher is doing a good job. So I guess I wonder how this process can be improved so that ineffective teachers no longer exist.
Tenure has been a sort of controversial topic in my family. There are family members who feel very strongly that teachers who are tenured tend to get sloppy with their work and produce a poor job teaching their students. Other family members feel that teachers who receive tenure are just as likely to teach well as teachers without tenure. I personally felt that if a teacher were to receive tenure that it could be very possible that they would slack off, however it could be just as posible for them to work as hard as they ever have. After reading this chapter about tenure and truly getting a grasp on some of the laws, I understand that tenured teachers aren't completely exempt from the possibility of loosing their job. This has eased my mind on the likelihood of teachers slacking off after being tenured. I now see that tenure is set in place to protect good teachers. Although this is comforting, it doesn't mean that there aren't teachers out there that take advantage of tenure.
In response to Lindsey S., You said, "This means that even though a teacher has received tenure, they cannot be complacent, because their job is safe only if they are performing it to the best of their ability." I love this point. That makes me feel more comfortable about tenure because I have always been a bit concerned about it.
Chapter 11 was mainly about a teachers’ right to a job. Tenure can be a tricky item, and each state is different. Another interesting part of this chapter was about reduction in force. When I was in Jr. High midway through the school year, my school district realized that it wouldn’t have enough money to pay its’ bills throughout the rest of the school year. They decided to use their RIF policy to eliminate positions. I think that a the support positions were the first to go, and then the non-tenured teachers. One of the non-tenured teachers that was let go was great, and I thought that it wasn’t fair that she was fired before other “not-so-great” teachers. I now see that there was a method and reasoning behind the school boards decision.
In response to Allison- I think that you bring up a good point as to whether tenure is actually necessary. As you said, it is intended to protect good teachers. I have also had an experience where a poor teacher wasn’t released because they were tenured. In that instance, I think isn’t tenure is necessary. In the grand scheme of things though, I think it is necessary because it can protect good teachers from an administrator that may have a different view point as the teacher. Also, it protects teachers from doing something that they oppose without fearing for their job.
Chapter 11 covers Tenure, Dismissal and Collective Negotiations. This may sound silly, but I have never really known much about tenure and how it works. After reading about the topic I was surprised to hear what it really was and the details are. I was really encouraged to hear that there is a process set in place to protect teachers and their jobs.
In response to Andrew: As a student that would be hard to understand. That would be hard to take and understand why a good teacher was being let go before one that might not be so popular.
I liked reading this chapter. It talked a lot about tenure and evaluation of teachers. I learned it takes three years to get tenure as a teacher. Plus, you have to be asked to come back the next fall. I liked how it talked about the teacher evaluation and how it can really help teachers improve on what they do. If nobody sees you teach and tells you what you can improve on, how can you expect to get better, or keep your job for that matter. It is very important to me to be the best I can be in everything that I do, so having someone evaluate me is a good thing!
I like how you said that it doesn't matter how old you are or how long you have been there teaching. If a younger, better teacher is doing a better job they deserve tenure. It does not matter how many years you put in. I think many people are confused by this and don't understand it fully.
I agree with many of the statements up above, that I probably know the littlest about this chapter in comparison to all of the rest. I like how they described tenure as a way to protect "capable teachers" to give them the chance to stay safe in their position, it makes sense to me. I think that when teachers are dismissed, it is a hard thing. It is almost like saying, sorry you're not good enough. I think I am one who will never go into a position of authority in the schools where as I would have to tell people what they are doing right and wrong. It is good to read about it now so that in the future we will perhaps remember more and will be able to steer clear of the "wrong" situations.
In response to Jordan Ottley: I agree that teacher evaluation is a great thing. It may be hard to listen to but we will be able to learn what things we are doing well and what things we need to change and fix. How are we to get better without someone from the outside looking in? Yes, we can learn from our own mistakes but sometimes it helps to have a new perspective too.
Chapter 11 provided confirmation of what I already felt I knew about tenure. I have viewed tenure from the parent or friend side for quite some time…wondering if certain teachers had it, when certain teachers would receive it, etc. Now, I am certainly hoping to achieve it myself! :-) From personal experience, I do know that once a teacher has received it, while it is possible to dismiss them due to certain causes, it must be very difficult. I have only witnessed this in regard to one teacher, but this teacher, as my husband describes it, is “a round peg trying to fit into a square hole.” Teaching is just not where this woman belongs, but there is apparently just not enough evidence to justify a cause to dismiss her. She recently even took off for a year, given that ability to know that she is guaranteed a position if she returns by the next year. Everyone thought that she wouldn’t come back because she is just miserable at what she does, but she did return. Whenever the subject of why she still has a job is brought up, people simply say that it is just too difficult of a process to dismiss a tenured teacher unless there is a very definite cause. Reduction in force is a term I have been hearing for the past couple of years, due to the current school budget, and I was glad to have it clarified in this chapter. Collective bargaining is something that I’m not sure I would want to put my name on as a participant. It seems as though a person might be labeled in a negative way if they were a part of the bargaining unit.
I, too, thought this chapter was very helpful in regard to our future as teachers. Reduction in force has been a new term to me as of the last couple of years, so this chapter really helped to further explain that. Going into a profession as “the low man on the totem pole” in a state where legitimate financial problems exist is a bit scary, isn’t it?
Betsy F.- I too felt that Chapter 11 was confirmation of what I already knew on teacher tenure. To me there are some teachers who tenure comes to them naturally and some who need to work on it in a big way! It is so important to have that tenure with students, parents, and other staff!
Chapter 11 is about teacher tenure. It is so important to have that tenure and know your rights as a teacher. Teachers themselves have a right, and as long as they follow the right laws of the teacher tenure they will be protected. This chapter has given me more insight on what to expect when I become a teacher and the "do's and don'ts" of teaching.
Elizabeth Adams~ well said. My daughter had a terrible 2nd grade teacher and when he humiliated her in class because she refused to write with the hand that was in a cast because she fractured her wrist, I went and talked with the principal and he stood by the teacher 100% and really made me feel like the kids didn't matter. We went to different school out of town the next year. No children should be in a class run by intimidation and humiliation.
This chapter dealt with every thing about teacher tenure, dismissal, and collective negatiations. It was very interesting to learn about tenure. I knew a teacher who didn't get it and wondered what she was referring. I can now understand what she was talking about she was very upset about it. She was a good teacher from my stand point. I spent some time with her during my tutoring. I hope that time didn't effect her job. I am glad to now know a more correct description. I guess soon it will mean a lot more to me. It is good to know the law and rights involved.
Shawna W. It is nice to think about job security in these tough economic times. I moved every year of my schooling due to job security alone. So to say that job security is important to me is an understatement. I want to make sure that it doesn't make me lazy years from now like other that have been discussed so far.
Chapter 11 discussed teaching being tenured and dismissal of teachers. I believe this is something all new teachers or soon to be teachers should be aware of. I work at a school district and just the other day some of the teachers were talking about how one teacher just became tenured. I had heard this expression before and I kind of knew what is consisted of but not completely. I feel it is important to know how to become tenured because this is something all teachers eventually want to be. This text has so many informative, references in it.
Jordan Ottley--I also enjoyed reading this chapter. I also found it interesting to learn that not only do you have to be at the school district 3 years, but you also have to be asked to come back in the fall, the beginning of your fourth year to be tenured. This is something all soon-to-be teachers need to be aware of.
First off, I want to tell you that you will have no problem becoming tenured! I have only met with you once in class and you really gave me great insight! I have seen one teacher in the past who was tenured and honestly I think she was a great person. As a teacher, I think she was amazing when she first started. She was great with paperwork but the kids learned absolutely nothing in her class. She had many health problems and should have retired years ago. She sat at her desk and gave worksheets. That is all. Unfortunately she passed away one day after school. I have mixed feelings on tenured. I think it is great because it gives you that security that you are doing a good job, and that is what we want. On the other hand, situations like the one I described took away from the students and it is an unfortunate situation for everyone. I did like the review the book gave though! It was a good refresher. And I didn't know that on the fourth year you had to be asked back! Good luck to everyone!!
I know exactly what you are talking about. When I was attending Colby CC for my associates I had a professor that didn't teach the course, he pushed his own thoughts and ideas about aliens, yes extraterrestrials, walking amongst us. I went to my advisor and she told me that he had many complaints against him for the very same thing, but that because he had tenure and there was nothing the college could do. I don't think this is right. That professor was using his tenure to "teach" whatever he wanted.
I think this chapter was very informative about the job security we have the possibility of earning during our teaching careers. However, while we are given a permanent position because of our abilities as a good teacher if we receive tenure we can still loose our jobs and that there are still do's and don'ts that we must follow. It is important that we a future teachers know that we can earn job security for being effective and competent educators.
I hope this post goes through! I have mixed feelings about tenure. It can be a good thing and a bad thing. I think many times tenured teachers don't give as much to their students because they know they aren't going anywhere. You can't just do a good job for three years and then slack off because you have job security. On the flip side of that, there can be several great teachers who get let go because they aren't tenured yet. This happened to many last year because of the budget cuts. There were excellent teachers that were let go when clearly some of the tenured ones should have been gone. I can see where it is a good thing because they have proof that they have done a good job and get to stay on where they are. Like i said, it has pros and cons and we need to make sure that we are using tenure appropriately!
In teacher evaluation, I am glad they added a chance for a second evaluation to be made if the evaluated teacher feels like they were unfairly evaluated. I know of some teachers who were evaluated and they were upset because there was nothing to build on from that evaluation. Everything was so negative that they were not able to look at it more than once. The teacher requested another evaluation by a second person and the criticism was much easier to look at as well as to implement ways for improvement.
I agree that there are teachers who can put on a front for three years then slack off because of this. However, just because these teachers are tenured, does not mean they were able to keep their jobs because they were tenured. Not all tenured teachers "slack off" but they are still just as effective if not more effective in their classroom.
Up until reading this chapter I never understood how a teacher attained tenure. I still don't know that I fully understand everything that is involved in tenure but the upside to reading this is that I learned a little bit more than I thought I knew. These legal terms and what not have never been my strong point so I may never fully understand them. But I do have a lot of friends and family in the education system and will have a lot of support and help in this area.
Joel Stucky I also think that it is great that they added a chance for a second evaluation to be made because if a teacher feels like he or she has been evaluated unfairly they deserve a chance to know for sure where they can improve and where they were successful at during their evaluation. The main purpose of an evaluation is to figure out where your weaknesses are and where and how to improve on them.
Agree!!! I have thought a lot about this in the years past. We have so many teachers that have taught over 30 years that have a bad case of the burn out, and they are protected because of tenure. I think it is important for us to be able to work towards perfection each year and not have the ability to get lazy because we know that we have tenure.
Law Module 11 on tenure, dismissals and negotiations was to the point. As professionals, we have an obligation to uphold our professional positions. It is our obligation to see that our negotiations are done and that are paperwork is in, we have to understand that because we have tenure we still have to be alive and functioning to the best of our abilities. Just because a teacher is tenured does not mean that he/she could not be fired. I appreciate the practical tips in the back of this module, the will come in handy in the future!
Chapter 11 was very interesting. It was all about tenure and the regulations for it. Before reading this chapter, I was against tenure. I thought it was a reason for teachers to become lazy and even kept bad teachers in the system. I now see that there are ways to get rid of a bad teacher if they no longer need to be in the system. I now see the place for tenure and I am glad that I read this chapter.
In response to Betsy F.: This teacher that you have described is my biggest fear about tenure. There are so many teachers out there that are passionate about the job and would absolutely love and be great at teaching the students that she has, but they cannot find a job because of the process of dismissing a tenured teacher is too in depth. It's sad, I just hope that she realizes what is best for the students!
Chapter 11 basically discussed teacher tenure and dismissal. These were interesting topics to me as I have debated on how teachers achieved the ‘tenured’ status, and what they must do in order to be dismissed at that point. For me, whenever I heard someone say a teacher had tenure- it was spoken as if the teacher was untouchable and archaic. Most often heard in college, I assumed these professors were dinosaurs operating off antiquated theories and irrelevant information. However, I only experienced a poor tenured teacher once in all of my education. As I understand it tenure comes at different stages depending on your state or district. It is generally accepted as a level that the teacher is no longer considered to be hired on a probationary basis. It is not an excuse to become complacent in your teaching habits and not an excuse to engage in conduct that would detract from your ability to teach. Engaging in poor conduct, or failing as a teacher would still be acceptable excuses for dismissing a tenured teacher. Other reasons for dismissal could be financial or good or just cause. Once a teacher receives tenure they must be notified as to the reason they are being terminated as they have a legitimate claim to a teaching position within the school or district. However, if a teacher is terminated before tenure is established no reasons must be given for the contract not being renewed. This chapter explained the illusive term, tenure, for me as well as established general guidelines for dismissal. I now feel more informed about my rights as a teacher in regard to the expectations of tenure and my conduct.
ReplyDeleteThis chapter was interesting to me for many reasons. Becoming tenured is of great importance to me because I will be seeking the acquisition of tenure soon. I have questions about how the evaluation process is judged. Will my principle be the only one evaluating me or will another administration person being observing me? Will I have to go through another interview process each year before I am tenured?
ReplyDeleteThe other part of this chapter I found of interest to me was the collective bargaining section. I wonder if and who the district bargaining person is and if they are compensated for their efforts? Is there a third party involved in the negotiations? I learned that there are some issues that are not negotiable in some states. The school board and the teachers union are the two major players in these contracts.
In response to Jena S,
ReplyDeleteI agree, the tenure process is one with many questions. Unfortunately, I don’t know the answers to any of them. But, after reading this selection I at least have some idea of the process. It was also informative to learn that there are some things that can’t be bargained for, for instance pay increases in many cases. I had believed that pay was something that was almost always determined through a third party bargaining system.
Chapter 11 to me was the most interesting and helpful chapter to me as a future teacher. It talked a lot about tenure and dismissal and I was able to get lots of facts about the two different areas that I didn’t know before. First of all I learned that in most states a teacher doesn’t receive tenure until after three years of teaching and is also being asked to come back in the fall. An important point that I noticed was that tenure is not designed to protect teachers who are ineffective but those teachers who are competent. The chapter also talked a little bit about teacher evaluation and the importance of it and the benefits to the teacher after getting evaluated such as ways to improve his or her teaching. I had never heard the term reduction in force before but now I do and I am aware of what it means in the school system. I loved the fact that the book gave seven different criteria that districts look at when considering employers for reduction in force and overall I agree with the criteria and it seems only fair.
ReplyDeleteIn response to Adrianne Hoefler
ReplyDeleteI agree with you Adrianne that I always thought of a tenure teacher as untouchable and that they were always going to have their job unless they did something really bad. I also understand the text that tenure comes in different years depending on the state in which you are employed but the number is usually around three years. I agree that it doesn’t mean then as a teacher you can start slacking off and not doing as good of a job teaching. A tenure teacher has no rights to engage in poor conduct and like you stated would most likely dismiss the teacher even though he or she has tenure. A tenure teacher does need to know by they are being let go and a teacher in the probationary period doesn’t. Lastly I also understand the concept of tenure and dismissal more and I feel more informed about the topics.
Katie Coulter
ReplyDeleteMath Methods
Law Module 11
This chapter was very informational. Tenure for most is a common goal and huge job comfort but even after reading through all the procedures and such I still don’t know how I feel about it. I do believe it was created for the right purpose however, today I feel that it protects more of the bad teachers than the good. I remember in middle school in science we got on the subject of tenure. We had heard about this word but didn’t understand so we asked our teacher. She began to explain how she was tenure and everything she did and all the other teachers who had received this status. Then she proceeded to tell us she would never lose her job unless she basically rapped or harassed one of us students. I couldn’t believe what she had just told us! To top it all off she wasn’t a good teacher. One time she had a senior boy come to our class and explain genetics because she didn’t know. That whole experience has stuck with me and I have a hard time believing in something that allows that kind of teacher in any school system.
As an educator I think that evaluations are completely necessary. I think that every person no matter who you are or what you do could use guidance and room for improvement, and evaluations should help provide that. No one is perfect. Teachers should be assessed to make sure that they are doing their job correctly and educating the students accurately. On an average of twenty students a year education rides on your ability to provide them with an adequate education. We need to make sure that we are doing our best to give them that. I find all of the reasons that teachers could be fired to be very interesting. If a teacher isn’t doing his/her job or neglecting duties then they shouldn’t be teaching. You can’t play around with a kid’s education. It just isn’t fair to them.
ReplyDeleteBrooke- You mentioned that in most states teachers have to be employed for 3 years before they tenure. I think that this is great because it gives them a chance to prove themselves.
ReplyDeleteIn response to Kristle C,
ReplyDeleteI totally agree that teachers should be evaluated. Even as scary as that might be for a teacher and the thought of having someone watching me teach! It must be done to keep teachers on their toes and on task. I have a great friend who lives in Greeley Co. He is a retired president of a specialized college/high school. It’s for students who may have dropped or kicked out of high school or have bad grades or want a vocational education. But anyways he we do random drop ins every day on teachers and was very involved in everything being taught in all the rooms. He talked about how many faculty they would go through in a year but he didn’t care. He hated doing interviews and searching for more teachers but never hesitated to let a teacher go who wasn’t doing their job. I think we need more of that in all schools, public or college.
I loved all the “new” vocabulary in chapter 11. I had heard several of the words, but never quite new or understood what they meant. Words such as incompetency, insubordination, neglect of duty, immorality, and others are so important to know. I also thought that the “sexual advances toward students” section was very interesting. It is so hard for teachers to know what they can say or do and not be held responsible for an inappropriate action. We are taught to give high-fives for a positive gesture or give a light touch on a student’s shoulder when miss behaving, but is that too much? I know there are people out there that are sick like that, but others are caring.
ReplyDeleteIn reply to Katie: Wow! What an amazing story! That is crazy! I often wonder why some people are teachers. It seriously is a profession you do not do for yourself, but for others. It clearly does not pay well, so if you are one that doesn't care and have no intentions of making a connection with your students and helping them through life, why even bother?
ReplyDeleteThe topics in this chapter are not something new to me. I grew up with a father as a teacher/coach and I would overhear talks about all the politics that were going on at the school. Many of the words and comments in the text I have heard many times as I was growing up. I have always thought the idea of tenure was kind of interesting actually. I think it is great that tenure is a really good attribute that the education field offers. It is nice for teachers to know that they have a little security and just focus on doing the best job they can. I honestly think that if you just do your job that you should have nothing to worry about, but then again I am sure that is me being naïve again. Contract negotiations are something that I feel have really been a major issue over the last few years. I know my father shared with me there were a few years that the teachers would start the year off with the prior year’s contacts because the current contracts were not agreed upon yet. Now how can they do that? I know that it’s a very controversial topic but how can they do that to their employees, I just don’t feel that its right. This chapter is a great resource to help answer questions that may come up on these types crisis or situations.
ReplyDelete@DeidraJ
ReplyDeleteIt is so sad that a few sick people have made our society such an overprotective society. What choice do we have but to protect our children and love ones. I think it is clear to see actions that are meant to be caring and those which are inappropriate. I think one of the biggest things is to make sure children know what is appropriate and what is inappropriate. I also agree that this book does well with defining the terminology and explaining in ways that are easy to understand. One this is for sure, we are going to have our work cut out for us when we enter the field.
Personally, I do not know if I agree with the idea of Tenure. Maybe it is because how tenure is perceived in the profession. I have thought hard about this and tried to think of another profession that has tenure. I think as teachers we should all be treated the same. If you are doing a good job and performing your job than your position is still yours. If not, the school should have the right to terminate you whether you have taught for 1 year or 25 years. This is even more important now because some very good teachers are being let go because they only have 2 years experience and another teacher may have tenure (not necessarily a better teacher) but they have tenure. It is very hard to fire a teacher that has tenure because they have a a lot of support behind them. I hope this post does not make anyone mad, but it is how I feel about the topic. I think every teacher should be evaluated the same way.
ReplyDeleteKatie C: I agree with your post. I don't see the need for tenure. If a teacher is doing their job why should they worry about being fired. I do not like the idea that a great 2nd year teacher may lose their position to a tenure teacher who is terrible because of a budget cut. As a paraprofessional in these hard times I have seen some really good teachers get let go because of the cuts. A tenure teacher gets moved to that position not because they are a better teacher, but because they have been there for 3+ years.
ReplyDeleteTo Adrianne: I guess another problem I have with tenure is the fact that a teacher who does not have tenure can be dismissed without any explainable. I just do not like that idea. In most lines of work people are put on a ninety day probationary period. However, it is three years and they can just say good bye with out reason. I would like think there would not be a need to dismiss someone for incompetency if they have a degree in education and passed the state exam. While a tenure teacher can be dismissed after notification and a long fight, it seems like it usually doesn't happen.
ReplyDeleteLacey Keller
ReplyDeleteThis chapter is one that has many arguments for and against it. I eartagged the page that stated that tenure laws are to protect the teachers who are competent not the ones who are ineffective. Through a parent's eye, I do not agree with the entire law. Honestly, I have seen some teachers who promise the kids will learn this and that, but at the end of the year, the kids have not learned a whole lot. I hear the excuse over and over again that the teacher is still there because he/she is tenured! Maybe the administration needs to have a better evaluation system?
Another point that caught my eye was the part that said teachers are not protected by the tenure laws when they cannot effectively teach the material and/or effectively discipline. The teachers will be held accountable for the material being taught by the measurement of AYP. However, how do you measure the discipline policies of a teacher? As a para, I have seen some pretty rough classes and hope I have effective administration to back me up.
Lacey Keller
ReplyDeleteJeanette,
I agree with you in that the tenure laws are not always effective. We lose an awful lot of good, non-tenured teachers because of tenure policies. I would personally like to see a change so that 1.) our educational contracting system will be viewed positively in the public eye and 2.) students will be gauranteed the best teacher regardless of the number of years taught.
I can also see the good that tenure law offer. Here in rural Kansas, many communities have board members that may be elected to see a teacher ousted. Think about it: an elected board member may only need sometimes twenty votes to be a member. (Yes, here in western Kansas, it's possible!) And, without the protection of the tenure laws, this board member may personally attack the teacher causing a loss of a job.
This chapter discusses tenure, dismissal, and collective bargaining. I always like learning more information on tenure and hearing peoples opinions on tenure. I do believe in tenure, but I also feel that there are teachers out there who have given it a bad name and take advantage of it. I found the section on collective bargaining interesting. This is a topic that I don't know much about. I learned that there are significant differences in collective bargaining between private and public sectors. Private sector employees do not have the same constitutional protections as public sector employees. I also learned that length of work day, teaching workload, extra duties, leaves of absences, and other fringe benefits are said to be mandatory, meaning that both parties must be involved. I don't know if this happens or how it happens, but I did find it interesting to read about.
ReplyDeleteIn response to Jena,
ReplyDeleteYou brought about some very interesting questions. I have learned all about tenure, but never about the actual process and how they know you deserve it. I would really like to find out this information.
This was one of the chapters I found to be more important. The concept of tenure always seemed extremely confusing to me, but as a future teacher this law book really laid out how it works.
ReplyDeleteWhat interested me most while reading Chapter 11 was the dismissal aspect. I never would have thought half of the reasons for dismissal are actual lawful reasons to dismiss a teacher. I do have one question though? What goes into dismissal for incompetency? Granted it is the teacher that has a responsibility to teach the students the materials required in curriculum. But is the incompetency based solely on student achievement or is there ways to tell the teacher themselves is not competent of teaching?
@ Shawna W
ReplyDeleteI agree that the tenure concept is a great incentive for teachers. It helps us have a little bit of job security (that is if it is implemented and acted upon effectively). I also agree that if you can do your job effectively you shouldn't worry about losing your job. Good teachers are hard to come by. (Yes, maybe I'm also being a bit naive, but it seems like it's legitimate when talking about keeping a teaching job.)
Chapter 11 was great. I really was not familiar with all of the tenure rules and regulations. I have to say that I was someone who did not believe in the whole tenure thing. Where else in the real world do you get tenure? Nowhere. I guess I feel this way because I see terrible teacher continue to teach poorly, but they have tenure so I thought they were untouchable. But after reading this there is a way to get tenured teachers out, it is just a process.
ReplyDelete@ Lacey Keller
I agree with your outlook on this, and it is nice to see it through a parent’s eye. I can not count how many times I have heard other teachers say “they can’t get rid of her because she is tenured!” I just think it is a bit outrageous.
Response to Lindsay H
ReplyDeleteTenure does not give mean that schools have to keep bad teachers, but that fact that they can get rid of a teacher does not mean that they will.
Measuring how good or bad a teacher is at their job is a difficult thing that many schools may not be sure how to do. Additionally whatever the school board may think of the things a teacher does, at this point test scores rule. No matter how much the school board may disagree with the things a teacher does, if the test scores are high; the teacher will stay.
At the same time NCLB will make it hard to explain why they are keeping a teacher, even if they like them, if the test scores are always bad.
Tenure and collective barging, things teachers love that may not last. While this chapter is complete and accurate as far as it goes, things may change.
ReplyDeleteSo many bad teachers have kept their jobs in the age of tenure that people want to get rid of teacher tenure.
Through collective barging teachers in some places have gotten so much, and refused to give it up when budgets dropped, that some people want to get rid of that. There are two many teachers who have been working for years who would rather see 5% of teachers get laid off then take a 5% cut in pay.
This chapter is accurate at this time, but we are at a point in time in which that could change quickly.
Finally remember that teachers can not strike and that you are a public servant, the public is not there to serve you.
This chapter was interesting to me, tenured worked depending on what state and district you teach in. I think most school teachers have to teach three years before they can be tenured. I was very intrigued in this chapter to learn how it works for dismissal too. The most interesting thing I found from this chapter was the 7 different criteria that districts look for when taking into account their employers for reduction in force.
ReplyDeleteLaw Modules Chapter 11-
ReplyDeleteThis chapter answered some of my questions but also raised some of them. I have always heard how important it can be to reach tenure status as an educator within a school district, this does not mean that the teacher is untouchable and guaranteed a job for life. It is however, a promise of protection for the teacher and a promise of continued employment as long as the educator continues to work to the best of his/her ability and continues to play by the rules within that school district.
I have recently read so many articles though about how the tenure system is going to be abolished. Because many people believe that these educators will perform better if they are constantly having to show why they deserve employment and it will keep them on their toes. I have not heard anymore about this in the past couple months but am once again anxious to find out what is being done with these ideas.
The book “A Teacher’s Pocket Guide to School Law 2nd Edition by Nathan L. Essex looks at and explains different laws and their importance to people including educators. According to the chapter title, chapter eleven of Essex’s book talks about “Tenure, Dismissal, and Collective Negotiations” (Essex, 156). In this chapter of the textbook I learned new and interesting facts, I reflected on my own life experiences and I thought of questions that made me dig deeper.
ReplyDeleteSomething that I learned in this chapter of the text book was “tenure” was. I have heard this word many times when I worked as a para educator in the school district but did not know what it was. People would describe it as meaning that teachers have worked at a school for a while so it was hard to get them fired then other teachers that have not been working at the school district that long. Now I know what the word really means.
A piece of information that I made me think about when I become a teacher was the statement in Essex (2011) book “During the probationary period, a teacher may be denied renewal at the end of the contract year without cause, or dismissed during the contract year without cause, or dismissed during the contract year with cause” (Essex, 157). Does this mean during the probation period a teacher can be let go for any reason what so ever?
References:
Essex, N. L. (2011). Teacher’s Pocket Guide to School Law (2nd ed.). Boston, MA: Pearson.
Jeremiah G:
ReplyDeleteI think that you have a great point that right now this is accurate, will it still be in the next 10 years? I think that you have a good point that bad teacher have kept their jobs in the age of tenure that people want to get rid of teacher tenure. I also can see this changing very fast.
In response to Lindsay H...
ReplyDeleteI was also intrigued by the ways for tenured teachers to get dismissed and cause the loss of their employment. I knew that there were still possibilities for these teachers to lose their jobs I was just never sure of how that happened.
Carissa,
ReplyDeleteI too have heard that it is important for a teacher to be tenured because of all the protection that they get that teachers on probation do not. I have not heard that they are going get rid of this but that is good to know. I think it really should not matter to teacher's if they had that protection or not because they should perform to the best of their ability all the time.
I liked reading chapter 11 on tenure, dismissal and collective negotiations. It gave me insight on what I can expect once I have been teaching at the same school for a while along with evaluations. Tenure is put into place once you have been at the same school for three years and consists of protecting teachers and is entitled to fundamental fairness. However, a teacher can still get dismissed even if they have tenure because of incompetency, insubordination, neglect of duty, immorality, or financial exigency. Again the tips at the end of the chapter was a great review.
ReplyDeleteIn response to Jennifer P –
ReplyDeleteI too had heard of tenure, but never really knew what it was about. For some reason I thought you had to be at the same school for five years, but read it was only three years. I do think it is a good thing to try and achieve tenure and be at the same school for a while. I also am curious about your question, but think that the teacher can be let go for any reason.
This chapter was very interesting to me. It gave me the most information of stuff I did not have a clue about completely. I never really knew what tenure meant. I gained that knowledge form this exact chapter. It basically means that a teacher is no longer in the probation state. It is different in each state and maybe in each district. There is a specific date within the district or school of when the teacher must be notified if there will no longer be a position available to them for the following school year. If a teacher has been at the same school for three consecutive years, and do not receive a letter of nonrenewal, they gain their tenure by default. I enjoyed the teacher evaluation section. I think it is great when they are evaluated and given information on what they need to correct and how they are doing. Sometimes just knowing that someone is seeing your work and how you are portraying yourself at your job, is very helpful. This may help the teacher realize that the school principal or superintendent is actually noticing the great or horrible job you are doing. The school I interned at last semester was not like this. The teachers pretty much did whatever they wanted and whenever. They were pretty much in charge of themselves. You rarely saw or heard of the principal being around or even he superintendent. I think the main reason for this is because the school is so tiny that each person does more than one job. They have an elementary, junior high and high school, but I think you will find that the principal maybe a teacher at points as well.
ReplyDeleteIn response to Jennifer P –
ReplyDeleteI too did not know what the word tenure meant. After reading this chapter, I feel like I am efficient in knowing the word and that I am even able to explain it to other people. I am also wondering the same thing as you are in the fact that it stated during the probation period, a teacher may be denied renewal at the end of the contract year. My sister is a teacher in California and they had some major budget cuts last year. She was told she was let go because she was on the bottom of the totem pole in experience. Well she ended up getting her job back because they realized that she had more experience than the others that were left to fill the spots needing filled. They base it off of years of experience when people thought it was based on the years in the district. Some people belonged to another district for a few of their teaching years.
This was big on conversation for several teachers last year. The threat of cutbacks for teacher’s, caused several of our teachers to talk over whether they have tenure. Teachers that were not tenured were thinking that they would be first ones to go if we were to lose anyone. I know after being tenured I’m going to take a big sigh of relief. I have seen a couple of teachers that seemed to have what other teachers said were bad skills, or just couldn’t get along with others and they couldn’t do much about it because they were tenured. I thought that maybe there would be other choices such as training them to do better, or discipline of some kind to help them work with others better. I would hate to think that tenure was just a way to protect yourself from trying to be a better teacher. I really like the idea of teacher evaluations. I think it’s important to continue to assess your skills and get feedback that can help you improve. Financial exigency – even with cut backs, I know our school didn’t lose any teachers or staff. They did everything they could to make sure everyone had a position of some kind. Dismissal for cause, as scary as it sounds I’m glad that we have that. Incompetency, insubordination, neglect of duty, immorality, conduct involving morality, and sexual advances toward students are definitely things I would not want someone teaching my children being accused of found guilty of and still being allowed to teach my children, so I would expect myself not to be guilty of them.
ReplyDeleteApril B - in response to what you commented on. I too was pretty unfamiliar with the term and I'm glad we have this guide. Somethings I have picked up while working in the schools and if I had not worked in a school this guide would be very important in informing me of our laws. I know one teacher this year that I think they counted as tenured even though she had only worked in this district one year but she worked in another district.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteWithin this chapter, I was able to understand the concepts of tenure in more detail. Being in practicums and having internships, I have discussed the ideals of tenure with practicing teachers, but depending on the specific school district, tenure is different. I personally agree and disagree with tenure. I feel that the GOOD thing about tenure is it allows teachers the opportunity to be recognized and feel that they school district trusts them and their teaching skills (plus, with state testing and administrative overseeing, teachers are able to continue to do well and stay on track.) On the other hand, I have had a teacher in the past who has threw shoes across the room and pulled my brother's hair. This is obviously NOT acceptable! Why would anyone want anyone, let alone a teacher from 8:00-5:00 five days a week, to be around their child? There is no excuse, but because of tenure and the small town community personal security this teacher had, they were not terminated or punished in any way. This teacher taught me how NOT TO BE...
ReplyDeleteCarrisa-
ReplyDeleteI have also heard that "they" may get rid of tenure. I think that it would keep teachers on their toes and keep the inspiration of true and good teachers alive. All jobs have supervisors and need to renew contracts at times, why shouldn't teaching? Teachers have to be up to date with tests and procedures, why not with their tenure? This is something I wouldn't be opposed to in the future. We shall see...
This chapter contained lots of new information for me. Learning more about tenure was comforting, especially with the declining job market. I would not want to get out into my profession and a few months in find out I'm going to be fired because for nothing I did wrong on my part. I especially enjoyed reading about the tenure guides. It touched on the fact that tenure does not protect teachers who are ineffective. I think this is important because teachers must do their job right and provide a quality education for all students or they are not achieving anything. If this is not the case than they will need to reevaluate themselves instead of just growing more comfortable with the way things are going.
ReplyDeleteThis chapter touched on a ton of other information I was pretty much clueless on so lets just some it up to say that there were many epiphanies had throughout this reading!
Rachel,
ReplyDeleteI didn't have much prior knowledge on tenure so what I learned was comforting for me in a way. I feel like if I can do my job right and be effective I will be okay, especially with tenure. Like you said though, there are teachers our there who are simply horrible and should not be protected by this. It seems theres got to be a fix in the system to ensure that all teachers under tenure are truly good and effective. Like in your example the ones who should have proved that the teacher was not effective were the ones protecting them from that title. Tenure is a good thing when it comes to professional and effective teachers but theres got to be a way to weed out the ineffective unprofessional ones. Good post!
My first thought when reading about "tenure" was the teacher cutbacks that have been in the news in the past year or two. If my memory serves me correctly, many of the teachers that were cut, in large numbers, were in schools where NCLB requirements were not being met. If this is the case, their jobs were lost due to poor performance of the students. The NCLB indicates that teachers are responsible for their students success. Our school has had the same cutbacks, but have not cut positions. They have "rearranged" teachers or cut back the number of sections of a grade, but for the most part, with retirements, the teachers have been placed in different positions. Some may have moved from one grade or subject to another or taken on an additional class/subject (middle school).
ReplyDeleteI was interesting to read the reason for dismissals for cause. I agree with them. As discussed in the previous chapter, teachers are often seen as role models. If a person is incompetent, insubordinate or neglectful in duty, they should be replaced. Additionally, the morality or lack there of issues should also be considered. Teachers need to consider the area where they work and what is acceptable. Most things will be the same no matter where a teacher works.
Tenure, Dismissal and Collective Negotiations
ReplyDeleteThis chapter states over and over again that tenure is designed to protect effective teachers and that is not put in place to protect teachers who are ineffective or are not doing their job to the expectations in their contract. But this does not align with what common beliefs are about tenure in the communities I have lived in. And I know many ineffective and poor quality teachers who have held their jobs for years and years. I have to wonder if they are in that position because of tenure. Or was my child the only one who “fell through the cracks”? I doubt it.
The section on sexual advances toward students made me sick to my stomach. Sexual intercourse with students in the school building? I imagine due process was used and I hope the process moved swiftly in these cases!
On the other side of this, is the section on morality and the fact that teachers are expected to live up to a high moral standard because they are an example to the students and the community in general. The chapter points out that teaching is an exemplary profession and teachers are behaviors are expected to be above reproach. I started thinking about this in the readings in Chapter 10, and here again, I have to wonder how much I will be living in a fish bowl and it is a little unnerving. I am confident in my ability to lead a moral life and be a good example to my own children and the community at large, but what about a gathering of friends in a public place? What if my night to hang out with my friends at the local pizza joints when jokes get a little off-color is witnessed by students or parents of students? Does this mean it is time to start ducking out on that activity? People in my life look at me a little funny when I say that I am starting to feel the pressure of entering the teaching profession, but being a teacher covers every aspect of my life, not just a 7:30-3:30 “job.”
Although parts of this chapter repulsed me, it was full of helpful information. One thing I appreciate about this book is the way it summarizes points in the back of each chapter. In the future, it will easy to come back and find well-organized information to refer to, which will help me locate the specifics in the chapters when I want/need to refer to them again.
Jennifer P.~
ReplyDeleteI see you are quoting about the teacher in the probation period, so you must be correct, but I did not read the chapter to say that a non-tenured teacher could be let go during the contract period without just cause. I say this because of the place on p. 158 where it says: "...if a district decided to dismiss a probationary teacher during the contract period, then full due process provisions are required, including notice, cause and a formal hearing..." I believe that teachers in the probationary period can have experience non-renewal of contract for no reason but if let go during their contract, the school must show cause.
The entire process of tenure was intriguing for me to read. Since my husband is in educations I understood the basics of tenure. Even now more than ever. This year he took a new teaching position. It was somewhat of a risk leaving the comforts of tenure to start a new job elsewhere. However, he is loving his new job and has the opportunity to coach football, which is a dream come true for him. At the same time, being a head coach in high school adds a whole new level to achieving tenure. Not only does he need to show success in the classroom, but also on the field. For the most part tenure has not much of a concern, it's more of a comfort. My husband loves to teach and I know he will be successful where ever he is. I hope to be the same way - not concerned. However if for some reason I don't make tenure, I would hate to not be given a reason. I cannot imagine being let go and not knowing why. I would hope that the district or principal would be able to offer advice or recommendations as to what I could do to better myself.
ReplyDelete@ Lacey
ReplyDeleteYour question - "How do you measure the discipline policies of a teacher?" is so valid. I too am very concerned with discipline in the classroom. As a substitute, discipline was something that I struggled with. I am very surprised that we do not have a class that focuses on discipline. I know that we put focus on classroom management, but I think it should go much deeper than that. I know we will gain some experience from student teaching, but that will only be one teachers perspective. I don't feel that much discipline has been addressed during my interships. I guess that is why I have so much concern.
Chapter 11 was very informative and provided us with lots of useful knowledge about tenure, dismissal and collective negotiations. I enjoyed the practical tip Do Not that states, “Tenure laws are designed to protect only tenured teachers who are effective.” Some teachers who are not exactly excelling at their jobs may think that getting tenure will allow them to keep their jobs and that is just not true. The text stated that in some states, “teachers are eligible for tenure after three successful years in the same district and have a reemployment offer for the next year.” However, this does not mean that all teachers who have been teaching in the same school district for three successful years will be granted tenure. I think this system is a great way to protect the teachers who are doing a great job from getting fired over an unfortunate event that may happen in the future as well as a way to let go of those teachers who are not teaching effectively. The text also talked about dismissal for many reasons including incompetence, insubordination, neglect of duty and sexual advances towards students. We hold educators to a very high standard and if they are not doing their jobs as effectively as they should be, I’m glad to see that the laws are in place to let them go.
ReplyDeleteIn response to Carissa K.:
ReplyDeleteI found your post about how the tenure system might be abolished very interesting. On one hand I understand why the tenure system is a good idea and it helps keep the effective teachers in the schools, but what if they stop being as effective once they have tenure? Maybe if they did not have tenure and we only periodically evaluated teachers, they would be even more effective. You made some great points and made me think.
The word tenure is a word I have heard before, but never really understood the meaning. this chapter cleared it up for me. I now understand that it is security for teachers and to ensure they are protected. I always thought teachers received it by being a teaching for so long because it seemed like all the older teachers had tenure. The book on the other hand stated that most states a teacher may acquire tenure after three successive years in the same district. I feel teacher evaluation is important because I had handful of teachers in my years that were not the greatest and I wished so bad that the principle would just randomly walk in and sit-in on class. I felt that way because whenever the teacher would tell us that the principle was coming in to evaluate him or her, they would always act different. The chapter mentioned incompetency as being the sole reason for dismissal in most aspects. My science teacher in 8th grade should have been dismissed because for one thin I didn't learn anything and he talked about inertia the entire year.
ReplyDeleteBrandi S,
ReplyDeleteI to found the section on tenure interesting. It was something I had heard about through my years of school, but never really understood what it meant. I understand now that it's a means of protection for the teacher. I don't feel though that once a teacher receives tenure that they should think that nothing is going to happen to them at all and that they should continue to be a good teacher. If I were let go I would like to know why as well and be given advice. That is one of my fears when I become a teacher. I want to be a good teacher.
Before reading this chapter I had very little knowledge of teacher tenure. I didn't know that tenured teachers could be dismissed in RIF situations. Though tenure seems a good thing to attain as a teacher, it also seems to me that we shouldn't need it. We should do a good job teaching students to the best of our abilities. for this we should be rewarded with keeping our jobs so we may continue to help students learn.
ReplyDeleteCarrie H., like you I have lived in communities where the views on tenured teachers do not align with the books stated intentions of tenure. I hear strongly worded opinions from even my own family members how public teachers should not be granted tenure. These opinions come from examples of teachers doing poor jobs or doing terrible things, such as abusing students, and still maintaining their position. Tenured teachers can be dismissed through due process procedures, but why isn't the process always followed? This is a question that bothers many people because when a bad tenured teacher is protected, then who is protecting the students?
ReplyDeleteI’ve known that tenure is something to strive for, but didn’t really know what the requirements were. I also just assumed these requirements varied from school to school. It was interesting to me to learn that the requirements for tenure are actually set at a state level. I think this is great, because it keeps it consistent from school to school. I thought it was also good that Chapter 11 pointed out that “tenure is not designed to protect teachers who are inept and ineffective, but rather those who are competent and effective.” This means that even though a teacher has received tenure, they cannot be complacent, because their job is safe only if they are performing it to the best of their ability. I hope this is how this actually works. It would be unfair for a good teacher to be let go just because another teacher has been there longer if the teacher who has been there longer isn’t doing their job. On the other hand, tenure is important because it is job protection for those who have been teaching for a while. If I have been teaching for 20 years, I want to know my job is safe as long as I am doing my job. This keeps the school district from just letting someone go, in favor of someone new. It was also good to learn about what are specific grounds for dismissal for a tenured teacher, and the process that it would take to be dismissed. I think this is all very good information to have and will definitely want to know the requirements for tenure at my school so that I can strive for it.
ReplyDelete@ Elisabeth Adams
ReplyDeleteIt does seem that if everyone was just treated fairly, that tenure wouldn't be needed. However, I think tenure is there to protect teachers and ensure that they are treated fairly. I am sure that just was with any job, there are politics, and maybe it isn't always fair. But, I think that tenure protects experienced, effective teachers, because it keeps them from being forced out in favor of someone younger or new.
Chapter 11 covers tenure and dismissal. I found it interesting because like many others have said I was not sure what tenure really meant and involved. According to this book tenure is not intended to protect poor teachers. However, I feel that sometimes it does. I had a teacher in high school that was very ineffective. The administration received several complaints from students and parents about this teacher but nothing was ever done because this teacher was tenured. Even though the law does not intend to protect bad teachers, it requires the school district to provide proof and follow due process. I think because of this, many ineffective teachers get to continue poor teaching and their students suffer because of it. Teachers are already protected under other laws for being unjustly dismissed, so is tenure really necessary? This is not to say that no one deserves tenure, many teachers do. However, it seems to me that those teachers who deserve tenure, don’t really need it.
ReplyDeleteKayla R-
ReplyDeleteI completely agree that teachers need to be evaluated, because unfortunately there are some not so good teachers out there. However, like you said when the principal would come in to observe a class, the teacher would act differently. When that happens it appears to the principal that this teacher is doing a good job. So I guess I wonder how this process can be improved so that ineffective teachers no longer exist.
Tenure has been a sort of controversial topic in my family. There are family members who feel very strongly that teachers who are tenured tend to get sloppy with their work and produce a poor job teaching their students. Other family members feel that teachers who receive tenure are just as likely to teach well as teachers without tenure. I personally felt that if a teacher were to receive tenure that it could be very possible that they would slack off, however it could be just as posible for them to work as hard as they ever have. After reading this chapter about tenure and truly getting a grasp on some of the laws, I understand that tenured teachers aren't completely exempt from the possibility of loosing their job. This has eased my mind on the likelihood of teachers slacking off after being tenured. I now see that tenure is set in place to protect good teachers. Although this is comforting, it doesn't mean that there aren't teachers out there that take advantage of tenure.
ReplyDeleteIn response to Lindsey S.,
ReplyDeleteYou said, "This means that even though a teacher has received tenure, they cannot be complacent, because their job is safe only if they are performing it to the best of their ability." I love this point. That makes me feel more comfortable about tenure because I have always been a bit concerned about it.
Chapter 11 was mainly about a teachers’ right to a job. Tenure can be a tricky item, and each state is different. Another interesting part of this chapter was about reduction in force. When I was in Jr. High midway through the school year, my school district realized that it wouldn’t have enough money to pay its’ bills throughout the rest of the school year. They decided to use their RIF policy to eliminate positions. I think that a the support positions were the first to go, and then the non-tenured teachers. One of the non-tenured teachers that was let go was great, and I thought that it wasn’t fair that she was fired before other “not-so-great” teachers. I now see that there was a method and reasoning behind the school boards decision.
ReplyDeleteIn response to Allison-
ReplyDeleteI think that you bring up a good point as to whether tenure is actually necessary. As you said, it is intended to protect good teachers. I have also had an experience where a poor teacher wasn’t released because they were tenured. In that instance, I think isn’t tenure is necessary. In the grand scheme of things though, I think it is necessary because it can protect good teachers from an administrator that may have a different view point as the teacher. Also, it protects teachers from doing something that they oppose without fearing for their job.
Chapter 11 covers Tenure, Dismissal and Collective Negotiations. This may sound silly, but I have never really known much about tenure and how it works. After reading about the topic I was surprised to hear what it really was and the details are. I was really encouraged to hear that there is a process set in place to protect teachers and their jobs.
ReplyDeleteIn response to Andrew:
As a student that would be hard to understand. That would be hard to take and understand why a good teacher was being let go before one that might not be so popular.
I liked reading this chapter. It talked a lot about tenure and evaluation of teachers. I learned it takes three years to get tenure as a teacher. Plus, you have to be asked to come back the next fall. I liked how it talked about the teacher evaluation and how it can really help teachers improve on what they do. If nobody sees you teach and tells you what you can improve on, how can you expect to get better, or keep your job for that matter. It is very important to me to be the best I can be in everything that I do, so having someone evaluate me is a good thing!
ReplyDeleteLindsay Sabala,
ReplyDeleteI like how you said that it doesn't matter how old you are or how long you have been there teaching. If a younger, better teacher is doing a better job they deserve tenure. It does not matter how many years you put in. I think many people are confused by this and don't understand it fully.
I agree with many of the statements up above, that I probably know the littlest about this chapter in comparison to all of the rest. I like how they described tenure as a way to protect "capable teachers" to give them the chance to stay safe in their position, it makes sense to me. I think that when teachers are dismissed, it is a hard thing. It is almost like saying, sorry you're not good enough. I think I am one who will never go into a position of authority in the schools where as I would have to tell people what they are doing right and wrong. It is good to read about it now so that in the future we will perhaps remember more and will be able to steer clear of the "wrong" situations.
ReplyDeleteIn response to Jordan Ottley:
I agree that teacher evaluation is a great thing. It may be hard to listen to but we will be able to learn what things we are doing well and what things we need to change and fix. How are we to get better without someone from the outside looking in? Yes, we can learn from our own mistakes but sometimes it helps to have a new perspective too.
Chapter 11 provided confirmation of what I already felt I knew about tenure. I have viewed tenure from the parent or friend side for quite some time…wondering if certain teachers had it, when certain teachers would receive it, etc. Now, I am certainly hoping to achieve it myself! :-) From personal experience, I do know that once a teacher has received it, while it is possible to dismiss them due to certain causes, it must be very difficult. I have only witnessed this in regard to one teacher, but this teacher, as my husband describes it, is “a round peg trying to fit into a square hole.” Teaching is just not where this woman belongs, but there is apparently just not enough evidence to justify a cause to dismiss her. She recently even took off for a year, given that ability to know that she is guaranteed a position if she returns by the next year. Everyone thought that she wouldn’t come back because she is just miserable at what she does, but she did return. Whenever the subject of why she still has a job is brought up, people simply say that it is just too difficult of a process to dismiss a tenured teacher unless there is a very definite cause. Reduction in force is a term I have been hearing for the past couple of years, due to the current school budget, and I was glad to have it clarified in this chapter. Collective bargaining is something that I’m not sure I would want to put my name on as a participant. It seems as though a person might be labeled in a negative way if they were a part of the bargaining unit.
ReplyDeleteIn response to Brooke M.:
ReplyDeleteI, too, thought this chapter was very helpful in regard to our future as teachers. Reduction in force has been a new term to me as of the last couple of years, so this chapter really helped to further explain that. Going into a profession as “the low man on the totem pole” in a state where legitimate financial problems exist is a bit scary, isn’t it?
Betsy F.-
ReplyDeleteI too felt that Chapter 11 was confirmation of what I already knew on teacher tenure. To me there are some teachers who tenure comes to them naturally and some who need to work on it in a big way! It is so important to have that tenure with students, parents, and other staff!
Chapter 11 is about teacher tenure. It is so important to have that tenure and know your rights as a teacher. Teachers themselves have a right, and as long as they follow the right laws of the teacher tenure they will be protected. This chapter has given me more insight on what to expect when I become a teacher and the "do's and don'ts" of teaching.
ReplyDeleteElizabeth Adams~ well said. My daughter had a terrible 2nd grade teacher and when he humiliated her in class because she refused to write with the hand that was in a cast because she fractured her wrist, I went and talked with the principal and he stood by the teacher 100% and really made me feel like the kids didn't matter. We went to different school out of town the next year. No children should be in a class run by intimidation and humiliation.
ReplyDeleteThis chapter dealt with every thing about teacher tenure, dismissal, and collective negatiations. It was very interesting to learn about tenure. I knew a teacher who didn't get it and wondered what she was referring. I can now understand what she was talking about she was very upset about it. She was a good teacher from my stand point. I spent some time with her during my tutoring. I hope that time didn't effect her job. I am glad to now know a more correct description. I guess soon it will mean a lot more to me. It is good to know the law and rights involved.
ReplyDeleteShawna W.
ReplyDeleteIt is nice to think about job security in these tough economic times. I moved every year of my schooling due to job security alone. So to say that job security is important to me is an understatement. I want to make sure that it doesn't make me lazy years from now like other that have been discussed so far.
Chapter 11 discussed teaching being tenured and dismissal of teachers. I believe this is something all new teachers or soon to be teachers should be aware of. I work at a school district and just the other day some of the teachers were talking about how one teacher just became tenured. I had heard this expression before and I kind of knew what is consisted of but not completely. I feel it is important to know how to become tenured because this is something all teachers eventually want to be. This text has so many informative, references in it.
ReplyDeleteJordan Ottley--I also enjoyed reading this chapter. I also found it interesting to learn that not only do you have to be at the school district 3 years, but you also have to be asked to come back in the fall, the beginning of your fourth year to be tenured. This is something all soon-to-be teachers need to be aware of.
ReplyDeleteIn response to Betsy F,
ReplyDeleteFirst off, I want to tell you that you will have no problem becoming tenured! I have only met with you once in class and you really gave me great insight! I have seen one teacher in the past who was tenured and honestly I think she was a great person. As a teacher, I think she was amazing when she first started. She was great with paperwork but the kids learned absolutely nothing in her class. She had many health problems and should have retired years ago. She sat at her desk and gave worksheets. That is all. Unfortunately she passed away one day after school. I have mixed feelings on tenured. I think it is great because it gives you that security that you are doing a good job, and that is what we want. On the other hand, situations like the one I described took away from the students and it is an unfortunate situation for everyone. I did like the review the book gave though! It was a good refresher. And I didn't know that on the fourth year you had to be asked back! Good luck to everyone!!
Lacey,
ReplyDeleteI know exactly what you are talking about. When I was attending Colby CC for my associates I had a professor that didn't teach the course, he pushed his own thoughts and ideas about aliens, yes extraterrestrials, walking amongst us. I went to my advisor and she told me that he had many complaints against him for the very same thing, but that because he had tenure and there was nothing the college could do. I don't think this is right. That professor was using his tenure to "teach" whatever he wanted.
I think this chapter was very informative about the job security we have the possibility of earning during our teaching careers. However, while we are given a permanent position because of our abilities as a good teacher if we receive tenure we can still loose our jobs and that there are still do's and don'ts that we must follow. It is important that we a future teachers know that we can earn job security for being effective and competent educators.
ReplyDeleteI hope this post goes through! I have mixed feelings about tenure. It can be a good thing and a bad thing. I think many times tenured teachers don't give as much to their students because they know they aren't going anywhere. You can't just do a good job for three years and then slack off because you have job security. On the flip side of that, there can be several great teachers who get let go because they aren't tenured yet. This happened to many last year because of the budget cuts. There were excellent teachers that were let go when clearly some of the tenured ones should have been gone. I can see where it is a good thing because they have proof that they have done a good job and get to stay on where they are. Like i said, it has pros and cons and we need to make sure that we are using tenure appropriately!
ReplyDeleteIn teacher evaluation, I am glad they added a chance for a second evaluation to be made if the evaluated teacher feels like they were unfairly evaluated. I know of some teachers who were evaluated and they were upset because there was nothing to build on from that evaluation. Everything was so negative that they were not able to look at it more than once. The teacher requested another evaluation by a second person and the criticism was much easier to look at as well as to implement ways for improvement.
ReplyDeleteDina,
ReplyDeleteI agree that there are teachers who can put on a front for three years then slack off because of this. However, just because these teachers are tenured, does not mean they were able to keep their jobs because they were tenured. Not all tenured teachers "slack off" but they are still just as effective if not more effective in their classroom.
Up until reading this chapter I never understood how a teacher attained tenure. I still don't know that I fully understand everything that is involved in tenure but the upside to reading this is that I learned a little bit more than I thought I knew. These legal terms and what not have never been my strong point so I may never fully understand them. But I do have a lot of friends and family in the education system and will have a lot of support and help in this area.
ReplyDeleteJoel Stucky
ReplyDeleteI also think that it is great that they added a chance for a second evaluation to be made because if a teacher feels like he or she has been evaluated unfairly they deserve a chance to know for sure where they can improve and where they were successful at during their evaluation. The main purpose of an evaluation is to figure out where your weaknesses are and where and how to improve on them.
@ Jeanette,
ReplyDeleteAgree!!! I have thought a lot about this in the years past. We have so many teachers that have taught over 30 years that have a bad case of the burn out, and they are protected because of tenure. I think it is important for us to be able to work towards perfection each year and not have the ability to get lazy because we know that we have tenure.
Law Module 11 on tenure, dismissals and negotiations was to the point. As professionals, we have an obligation to uphold our professional positions. It is our obligation to see that our negotiations are done and that are paperwork is in, we have to understand that because we have tenure we still have to be alive and functioning to the best of our abilities. Just because a teacher is tenured does not mean that he/she could not be fired. I appreciate the practical tips in the back of this module, the will come in handy in the future!
ReplyDeleteChapter 11 was very interesting. It was all about tenure and the regulations for it. Before reading this chapter, I was against tenure. I thought it was a reason for teachers to become lazy and even kept bad teachers in the system. I now see that there are ways to get rid of a bad teacher if they no longer need to be in the system. I now see the place for tenure and I am glad that I read this chapter.
ReplyDeleteIn response to Betsy F.:
ReplyDeleteThis teacher that you have described is my biggest fear about tenure. There are so many teachers out there that are passionate about the job and would absolutely love and be great at teaching the students that she has, but they cannot find a job because of the process of dismissing a tenured teacher is too in depth. It's sad, I just hope that she realizes what is best for the students!